Sly & Robbie and The Legacy of Drum and Bass

Drum and Bass are one of the most important sections of any band. A sound so important that it itself has become a musical sub-genre, it is often the mastery of this section that determines what is a memorable hit and what just passes by failing to leave its mark. With Sly & Robbie, Jamaica has one of the world’s most famous and sought after (drum and bass) rhythm sections working with or inspiring not only local talent but also the likes of Bob Dylan, Britney Spears, Madonna, Fugees and No Doubt. Two phenomenal talents with two differing perspectives on the land of Jamaica its music and its culture, we at BACKAYARD were lucky to sit down with the Taxi Gang as they put the finishing touches on yet another sure to be classic album. What follows is a peek into the minds of contemporary geniuses and musical historians. So keep reading you just might learn something.

SLY DUNBAR

How did you get into the music?

Well, I started when I was around 15 years old. Lloyd Parkes was di one who sort a groom mi, yuh nuh. When I was a kid around 14 going on to 15, we had tape recorder round by my house and he used to come and play his guitar, cause he used to sing wid The Termites round by Studio One. But prior to that I used to listen to alot of records and a friend of mine from school name Willy Williams, singer of Armagideon Time, we were in the same class and we used to fool around, yuh nuh. We would sing songs during free period and tings like that until Ansell Collins tek mi to di studio one day to play in a song called ‘Night Doctor’ for The Upsetters which he produced himself.

Was it always drums for you?

Yeah, and my second recording when I was 16 years old was a song called ‘Double Barrel’ produced by Ansell Collins. Which was a million seller and one of biggest records that ever came out of Jamaica that was where my recording began but I used to play in dance bands around di place. At di same time I used to do alot of studio work and I used to guh done by a place called Randy’s Records Store we used to call it Idler’s Rest, alot of musicians would meet up there to see if dem get any sessions. Couple months after that I was playing at club called Tit for Tat and Robbie was playing at a club called Evil People. So we talk and when I get a break I check out his set and when he got a break he checked out my set. So we were there talking talking and he mentioned to Bunny Lee that he would like to play wid me, he (Robbie) was a part of di Aggrovators. Bunny Lee called a session and we did di session for John Holt called ‘Forgot to Say I Love You Til I’m Gone’ and then we were playing for Tit for Tat same way and I was playing at Channel One wid di Revolutionaries everything broke out now wid The Mighty Diamonds. We didn’t have any money so we used to beg studio time so we would work out a ting like you are di engineer for di studio so everybody play a tune and him play a tune for you. So I made a tune specially for him, him ask mi round 10 time which was very rare and the Diamonds liked it. I had di drum pattern of what I was going to play in my head because Jamaican music has produced such great drummers and I didn’t know how I was going my mark in this ting. I thought they played everything there is to play in reggae then I started thinking and listening and when I did ‘Right Time’ it was a big hit and everybody was talking about di double tap on di rim, then Jo Jo (Joseph Hoo Kim) gave me di go ahead to freelance but we took two years working on developing di drum sound and Ernie (Ernest Hoo Kim) liked di drum sound. So yuh haffi really thank Channel One cause di timing was so perfect di way how everything happen.  So yuh haffi give alot of praise and thanks to gi mi that freedom to really create and play cause some people when I recorded wouldn’t let mi play free, yuh nuh. Everybody would say ‘No, don’t play it like that don’t play it like that.’ But Channel One never one time seh ‘Don’t play it like that,’ they always gave mi my freedom. Then I went on a tour wid Diamonds later on to promote di album ‘Right Time’ and then Robbie ask mi to join him wid Peter Tosh and mi seh yeah man so this is where together now we started to go on tour, share room and working wid Peter. I did ‘Equal Rights’ album that was di first time I was in studio wid Peter and we started to think about how far we wanted to carry this thing. Di whole music, yuh nuh, because we didn’t even know.

How was it working with Peter Tosh?

How was it? It was wicked man. Peter Tosh was di first person to take Sly & Robbie in di physical to America so people can see us playing live on stage.  So yuh haffi gi him nuff respect fi that, we played wid Peter from ’76 until ’80 while we were producing records for our label at di same time. I was signed to Virgin Records as I was working wid Peter, that time was when di drum ting explode. So wid di Diamonds being hot and Channel One being di hottest studio and I was di drummer, I end up do two albums for dem. While I was on tour wid Peter I was doing an interview and at di time I was employed to Peter so I didn’t really care I jus wanted to express myself. Because I was reading alot of Quincy Jones, Motown and other musicians doing their albums. After touring wid Peter we went off to tour wid Black Uhuru. When we were wid Black Uhuru we used to share di same room and we couldn’t sleep a nighttime all we used to concentrate on about was how di show was going to sound di next day. Til Robbie one time was having problems because he was so concerned wid di band and everybody thought that di way  him talk him mean bad but he was meaning good. We went through hell trying to get Peter sounding di way he sounded di last couple of days. We changed engineers and everybody and had sound check and everything. After dealing with that we started to do our own productions and everything started to work like clockwork. It was like destiny Chris Blackwell sent us some things to listen for Grace Jones and I don’t know if Robbie listen to it but all now mi nuh listen to it … (Everybody Laughs)…. We go to Nassau and Robbie ask mi wah we a guh play and mi seh I don’t know. Robbie then seh mek wi guh di studio and rehearse di tunes and then cut it same time. Di Grace Jones sound came from a Black Uhuru record ‘Sinsemilla’ we played it (Sinsemilla) in di studio and dem heard it and seh is a wicked tune. So Alex (Alex Sadkin) who was a neutral person said lets jus use this sound and dem listen to Robbie bass sound that we came up wid and then they took everything from there and add their likkle touch to it. So that Black Uhuru sound was a part of Grace Jones sound.

Was that in the mid ‘80s?

No man that was ’80.

After touring with Black Uhuru which other band did you tour with?

We had our band, Taxi Gang. We used to read alot and we were travelling in America alot and so we were starting to adopt certain principles to our business. We started making records and making our likkle instrumentals and ting. Not knowing that any of it would work but obviously di ting work. After di Black Uhuru, we were jus Sly & Robbie same way jus trodding di earth. So we had seen it early and jus did tings we didn’t know why we did it sometimes we jus do it and it end up work out.

Where have you seen Jamaican music progress in 50 years?  

You have some great musicians overall. Bass players, drummers, keyboard players but there are still some musicians that still nuh get any credit like national honours and they play such a great part in the whole ting. I still think in Jamaica, di media don’t really have a history or know much about di development of di music. Di way it got how it is today, so they should go back and read and come back and ask di people who were there from di beginning. So we have a big problem in telling di story how it went and what happen cause I have read alot and they have tings wrong and it was not like that…

Well that depends on who telling the story because everybody have their side of the story to tell…    

Alright, here is a story that I heard recently. When it came down to rocksteady you had Lloyd Knibb playing for Studio One and The Skatalites and when they left, Joe Isaacs took that position. But he couldn’t play di ska as fast as Lloyd Knibb so he kept dropping di tempo slower. Jackie Mittoo get mad at him and everybody seh yuh know wah mek it stay. So if yuh listen song like ‘I Have To Go Back Home’ and all those songs is not really fast like ska it slower. Yuh could see it (the beat) coming down from there mainly because Joe couldn’t play as fast as Lloyd. What I try to do I try to tell di musicians to listen to di music where it is coming from. From mento to where it has come now for dem to go forward wid it, if yuh don’t know where it coming from yuh won’t know where to take it. But yuh see di whole 50 years, well it has been more than 50 years actually…

Well actually I was making reference to the years Jamaica has been independent….

Ok, alright. Well I think when yuh look at di music there is some great tings and musicians that this country has produced and I think we will be able to produce great musicians for di next 50 years. Wid all di technology that happening now sometime di musician dem get lazy. In our days there was no technology it was manual ting yuh had to work hard to get it. Nowadays yute don’t know how to get that sound I think even when dem have all this technology dem still nuh satisfied wid what dem hearing on certain tings. It has been a great era for industry but wah we need is some journalists fi review di whole ting and write about it in did correct manner. So yute dem can understand where it came from and inspiration one gets to do certain ting in di music. Some people think it jus drop from sky but most of the time I take something you say and see how I could develop it musically and most of di time that is how it happens. How I KNEW Jamaican music was going to blow because we have great musicians and alot of songs we were doing were cover songs. Di way in Jamaica we cover di songs alot of people don’t realize, they think is our own. We do it so good and for us to take a song like for example ‘I Want A I Can Feel’ that is by The Temptations written by Smoky Robinson. But John Holt did such a good job wid it that yuh don’t even remember The Temptations version. Di feeling yuh get on di record and having people like Jackie Jackson, Family man (Aston Barrett), Carlton Barrett, Jackie Mittoo, Robbie Lyn, Boris Gardiner, Patrick Mcdonald, Eric Frater, Joe Isaacs, Winston Grennan, Bunny Williams, Paul Douglas, Santa Davis, Desi Jones and so on and so on as great drummers and bass players and musicians. It is amazing that this likkle country can produce some much. If yuh check di places in di world where reggae is popular, alright yuh have Barbados and Trinidad where dem play dem calypso but reggae has come through. I don’t know what it is about us we must be god bless there must be something special about Jamaica. How many islands do you have out there, yuh have all kinda people doing music but yet still this likkle island put out a ting and call it reggae and have di whole world rocking. And most of di ting people mek it jus happen some tings happen by accident and some tings happen di way it was supposed to happen.       

  Robbie Shakespeare  

How did you get your start?

Well, over my yard my brother used to sing. Max Romero. Leroy Brown, Lloyd Shakespeare (Robbie’s brother), Audley Rollins used to have a group name ‘The Emotions’. Every day I used to be around di acoustic guitar…

Did you teach yourself guitar?

Kinda, I basically ask a man a ting and start learn and listen, yuh nuh.

Did you choose the bass?

Well after mi see Family Man (Alston Barrett) play. Cause Family Man used to come deh to and mi see him one day at rehearsal. Mi did always love bass, love drums and love guitar but up close and personal it was a different ting. So mi seh yeah mi waan yuh teach mi how fi play that.

Where are you from in terms of community?

I am from East Kingston. After Family Man, there used have a group called Hippy Boys that used to deh over my yard cause is herb we used to smoke over there. Every man used gather and smoke cause herb is not a bad thing. So deh so di meeting up deh so thru that, that is how me turn out to be because of singing, Family Man and di band. Music did deh all bout dem time deh still. Yuh used to have Bomas used walk round and go look pon Skatalites and at Globe Theater more while yuh used to have not only Tommy McCook but Derrick Harriott and Derrick Morgan because yuh know dem time deh di whole ting did musical. Mi used to listen to mi rediffusion hard, run come home every evening fi hear ‘Ta da ta da da Treasure Isle with a new song’, every evening yuh nuh.

So that was your inspiration?  

Yeah man mi did jus love music mi couldn’t drop asleep wid out it. But as mi tell yuh Family Man is really di man who mi see up close and personal wid di bass.

When did you start to play professionally?

I waan gi yuh a joke, from di day mi really seh mi start rehearse. I remember I was sleeping one evening and him come in and seh ‘Yo, yuh seh yuh waan learn, wake up’. Mi tek it serious from deh so mi used to play til my hand bleed.

What age was this?  

Mi nuh memba cau mi nuh good wid memory … (Everybody Laughs) … But young tender age still. Yuh coulda jook mi wid pin and mi bleed now when yuh jook mi wid pin and it bend, mi get old and tough … (Everybody Laughs) … Mi always did tek it personal mi used to play and cry as tough as dem seh I was dem time deh mi jus inna di music mi did haffi get it. Mi used to bruk up di old 45 record dem til mi hand dem cut up. Wrap up mi finger dem wid tape and use di 45 record and mek a pick. Some time mi caan get a feel of it dah way deh and yuh start play again sometimes di tape come off but mi did jus haffi get it. Yuh when yuh caan get supp’im and yuh know can do it. Mi is a soft person mi jus start cry. Mi did jus force myself on and on and on and on. Mi guh thru couple recording sessions til Bunny Lee which was di Aggrovators, Black Disciple which was Burning Spear, mi a everybody all-star.  Down a Randy’ s yuh play, yuh play for everybody. Reggie (Alva Lewis) from Upsetters call mi for a session. Yuh jus a freelance musician a do tings, so mi end up a play inna couple a club bands when mi seh club band mi mean you a play inna one band and di band get hired by di club….

For the night?

Yeah or mi nuh really know how dem get di work but yuh know yuh guh deh and yuh play all night. Yuh haffi learn di Top Ten song dem or Top whatever so yuh can keep people on di dance floor….

So people can buy up the liquor…

Yeah, well yuh get pay when yuh done still cause yuh keep di people on di dance floor and when it done dem seh dah band deh bad. Yuh di have a club called Gray Mist and a dehso wi used to play every week. Di first band that come through was Hippy Boys and then wid Aggrovators we do nuff recordings wid Bunny Lee dem. Delroy Wilson, Slim Smith, Derrick Morgan, Cornell Campbell, Johnny Clarke and we a do all a dem ting deh wid di Aggrovators. But Burning Spear was different basically di same set of man dem but as mi tell yuh we was everybody all-star Upsetters, Joe Gibbs everybody. Peter Tosh we did play for too on his ‘Legalize It’ album cause Sly never play pon dah one deh, Bunny Wailer ‘Blackheart Man’ album, ‘Marketplace’ and ‘Revolution’. Sly now, when we did a come up mi see Sly a play inna one band, him mus tell yuh that already, and mi jus draw fi him and seh ‘Bunny mi have a drummer yah waan test’. So mi draw fi him and use him, Peter Tosh band a put together and there was supposed to be one next drummer and mi jus seh, thru a me in charge, come mek we go wid Sly. Mi will tell yuh a who when we come off air …. (Everybody Laughs)…. A mi good friend, yuh nuh, two bad duppy caan walk, yuh haffi have a good one and a bad one. Sly was di bad one and me was di good one….

If you say so…  

A me seh so but yuh see how yuh a contradict mi. Bet yuh if mi seh Sly was good one yuh wouldn’t a seh that.

I would have said same thing…. (Laughs)…

 …. (Laughs)…. But that is how everybody have it because me is a no nonsense man.

So that was when you guys met up for the first time?

First time I saw him play was at Tit for Tat club, we left from Evil People (club) me and Touter (Bernard Harvey) wah did a play wid Inner Circle di keyboard player and even him him was a singer in our band and him get him start from dehso. So when mi see him (Sly) mi seh dah drummer yah bad a so mi like hear drum play. Mi always a tell di drummer then mi used to play wid Benbow (Basil Creary) and sometime him get vex nuh waan nobody seh nutten to him. So when mi see dah guy yah mi seh alright Striker (Bunny Lee) we have di right drummer wah wi waan test yah, him seh alright when yuh waan test him and mi seh book di studio time now and me will jus guh fi him. We jus lay down a portion of song and everybody inna di studio a jump up and a seh yeah yeah dah formula work, yuh nuh. Wid Peter Tosh there was a likkle fight dehso, but mi jus pick up and seh no him nah guh nuh weh him a guh stay and work. Fight dem fi him and then now when wi did a play a foreign now people start to gravitate and a seh yeah dah section yah bad. Peter Tosh was getting even higher ratings than Bob (Marley) dem time deh. Because Bob send a man to mi and seh ‘Bwoy how yuh a do dem ting deh’ cause when we did a produce Peter ting, wi jus seh ‘Jus cool Bob gwaan do yuh ting and ‘low wi.’ But Bob did waan mi play wid him still after wi play ‘Concrete Jungle’ him come for mi alot of times even when mi deh down a Channel One a do rehearsal him come and seh ‘Yo, a you mi come fah.’ Him, Bunny and Peter come fi mi already and him come more than one time. Before him even dead, mi deh a New York him call, him di deh Essex House mi deh a Howard Johnson and him tell mi seh him a guh a Germany and when him come back a me and Sly him waan play fi him. Is a man close to him tell mi seh when Bob hear di ting dem wid Burning Spear it mash him up him haffi guh back guh write. Which is good cause a so competition fi guh and a so it used to be cause when one man do a song and it bad, a next man woulda seh wah mi haffi mash up that. So that did good, keep yuh on your toes. When Bob hear di Black Uhuru him seh ‘Blooooodddccllaaaaatt’ …. (Everybody Laughs)…. A dem ting deh still if have Usain Bolt a run and nobody nah pressure him him caan run fast and him caan bruk nuh record. But Bob did always cool, di ‘hol a dem did cool actually dem used to think seh Peter a di bad one …. (Everybody Laughs)…. But Peter cool too yuh see yuh caan really judge a book by its cover yuh caan stay from a distance and judge a man when yuh deh round him yuh see a big difference. Mark yuh even though dem is pussycat don’t step pon dem toe. If yuh fuck wid a man him WILL defend it. Mi did do a ting already when mi seh Bob was a pussycat and people tek it di wrong way but mi nuh care. If yuh see a lion or tiger a sleep dem have some pretty eyes and yuh seh wah dah cat deh look nice eeen and yuh guh touch him and him jus mash yuh up.

When did you guys start the Taxi Gang label?

Well me did have a label name Barbell, mi did do some Gregory Isaacs and mi do some Johnny Clarke after mi do di Gregory. When we start record together and when it come to label time mi tell him mi have di label and him tell mi seh him have one name Taxi and him seh which one we fi use and mi seh use Taxi. Di reason for that Sly used to travel inna a lot of taxi and we used to get a fun from him and him taxi driver weh name Shorty, yuh nuh. So we start use di Taxi label but it was originally Sly own. When we start share Taxi now mi did still have a lot of songs on Barbell but, yuh nuh, it dormant yah now.

From your perspective how has Jamaican culture progress in the 50 years of independence?

Mi will give yuh try and gi yuh an honest answer. What happen to ‘hol 50 years of our culture and music is like a rise and fall, yuh nuh. It come in like mi nuh know if is more than seven time it drop like jesus and di cross because every time it build up we bruk it down. Now wid di download and dem ting deh, it kinda even a mash it up more. Di Jamaican music di kinda lyrics weh a guh pon di ting not nice and some of di riddim dem wah a mek. Actually pon di radio yuh not hearing di good music dem if yuh waan hear good reggae music yuh haffi guh New York and inna di Bronx or Brooklyn or yuh guh England yuh hear it even betta. France, Europe yuh hear good good music, Jamaica I think play di worse set of music on di radio, reggae music that is. Dem don’t support and is not now it a gwaan, di radio dem don’t support, I think, di ting a hundred (percent). Dem used to inna di ‘80s start a way and support it but it pop dung now.

I think back in those days JBC (Jamaica Broadcasting Corporation) had an award they gave to people record dancehall and reggae. I believe Jammys won one year for Sleng Teng but I am not sure why they stopped it…

People a do di music but it not playing here because how yuh spend, and a jus name a figure now, seh ten thousand dollars, a more than that still but mi jus a seh, fi mek a record. After yuh mek di record fi ten thousand dollars di radio man waan twenty thousand to play it. Yuh gi him di twenty thousand him don’t want it one time him want it regular, every week. If not him nah play it after dah first one deh, alright. A man a guh tek yuh tings and sell it on di road and mek a half a millon and yuh who actually do did spending and di bleaching nah mek a dollar. It nuh work out right, di mathematics nuh really tun out especially wid di radio man and di type of music wah dem a play. Me caan learn nutten from it, mi used to listen radio and learn from music and mi still listen now and learn from other people ting but mi caan learn from nuh a dem ting yah. Some a dem music sound foreignish to me like foreign funky music if mi waan do that mi listen to foreign music. Caan listen to dem yah and play mi nuh care wah nuh man waan seh. This hol’ heap a do di di boom boom and noise it jus nuh musical to me. That is why dem call it beat and mi hate when a man seh him guh mek a beat or him have a new beat. Mi hate it because me known fi seh ‘Bwoy mi have a new music yuh nuh, or mi have a new riddim.’ But yuh a mek a beat, might as well mi guh a Africa and listen to some African knock some drums cause is a beat that. Music me deal wid. When mi did likkle bit and a grow yuh hear bout independence and is a joyful time. Jonkanoo and everything di jus nice yuh nuh waan it finish. Mi nuh know how dah one yah (50^th independence celebration) a guh be so mi haffi wait. I won’t even be here I supposed to deh a England a play dem time deh. But things can change I wish I could but I can’t. Mi do di best mi can do but leave tings to di people weh a run di ting. Because if yuh a run your house as a man come yuh can seh ‘Ahmm, no disrespect but mi nuh really allow shoes fi come inna my house because me walk barefoot and my kids walk barefoot. So leave your shoes at di door.’ Him haffi respect that. Me is a man smoke outside a mi house, if yuh come in a no problem but yuh have some man if yuh ask dem if yuh can or even attempt fi smoke dem tell yuh dem nuh allow it and yuh haffi people place. So it depend pon di heads dem weh a run di ting if dem seh a so it fi guh and dem want it fi guh and dem serious, it can be that way and we can grow instead of this bickering. You know di two biggest artiste inna Jamaica a PNP and JLP, dem get di more play  and dem a di biggest ting. Nutten wrong wid that cause mi enjoy dem sometime but dem come so boom and one a keep a concert, one can be di opening act and di other one headline. Di two a dem could work together and trust mi it coulda work. On PNP and JLP side mi have people weh mi love and if you coulda tek from both side and mek one party, it woulda wicked.

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Amilcar Lewis

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